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WOW!!!! great project. Just joined not to long ago and just got a chance to look around your forum. I look forward to learning from you guys. Thanks Darkside Dave. Ron
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Darkside Dave
14 posters
First '53 Build Thread
scrapheap51- Posts : 15
Join date : 2011-02-21
Location : Salem, Oregon
Darkside Dave- Admin
- Posts : 1018
Join date : 2009-04-21
Age : 79
Location : Marietta, Ohio
scrapheap51 wrote:WOW!!!! great project. Just joined not to long ago and just got a chance to look around your forum. I look forward to learning from you guys. Thanks Darkside Dave. Ron
Hey, you just started my 9th page of my thread. Now, if I could just get back on my project. It seems like everthing in my life manages to wiggle it's way in front of my '53. Be careful trying to learn from me, I don't know as much as some people seem to think I do. I will however tell you I don't know if that is the case. In other words, I won't say, I don't know, but... There are guys on here that do know a lot though and they will all offer advice if asked. We are a small group but we cover a lot of the globe with members in five countries.
Welcome and enjoy the board.
Later Man...
Darkside Dave- Admin
- Posts : 1018
Join date : 2009-04-21
Age : 79
Location : Marietta, Ohio
Hi Folks, I'm back... Did you miss me??? Probably not. Well, I have a good excuse,,, no, make that a reason. Go check out https://darksidersrealm.forumotion.com/t417-rumors-of-my-demise-are-greatly-exagerated#2490 and you will see why I have been absent and why I have not made progress or posted anything on this build thread. The purpose of this post is to let it be known that I am back on the project. Aside from the time required to do the car club project in the above link I have been busy with club business and the ongoing show and cruise-in season, I have taken some time to to improve my shop and clean out a lot of junk as well. I am still doing that work but it is no longer taking all my time. I have noticed that there is not a lot of posting going on here and I am just as much to blame as anyone. I hope all of you are really involved in your projects and you just have not had time to post rather than loosing interest in the board. This being the car show season I hope some of you that attend the shows can post some pictures of the really interesting stuff. Later Folks...
Darkside Dave- Admin
- Posts : 1018
Join date : 2009-04-21
Age : 79
Location : Marietta, Ohio
Hi Folks,
Yesterday I went to the Pull-A-Part yard in Canton, Ohio and bought a short bed from a '93 Ranger pickup. It is going to be used on my '53. I still need to find a tail gate and one left side plastic inner fender for it. Oh yeah, new tail lights too.
So far as I am concerned it was a decent deal for $200.00.
Later...
Darkside Dave- Admin
- Posts : 1018
Join date : 2009-04-21
Age : 79
Location : Marietta, Ohio
Here is the Ranger Splash bed and all the fenders I have collected to go in the storage building.
Below is a picture of one of my 10' X 20' storage stalls with all the parts I have collected for my truck before I put the stuff below in there.
Here is the stall with the bed moved in.
Here are all the fenders moved in. The truck is in my shop... Time for a new stall...
Below is a picture of one of my 10' X 20' storage stalls with all the parts I have collected for my truck before I put the stuff below in there.
Here is the stall with the bed moved in.
Here are all the fenders moved in. The truck is in my shop... Time for a new stall...
Oh when will it end???
Later Folks...
Darkside Dave- Admin
- Posts : 1018
Join date : 2009-04-21
Age : 79
Location : Marietta, Ohio
Hi Folks,
Well, here we go again. As you may have noticed my project has been on the back burner for some time now. My current dilemma is one of positioning the engine and tranny. Two problems are stumping me. First the top loaded shifter is way to far forward and there are also issues positioning the engine so that the oil pan clears everything. Also there are issues with the back of the engine interfering with the heat and air equipment on the firewall. I may have a possible solution. I have a chance to buy a transmission and transfer case from a '93 Ford F-150. It's an automatic 4 speed OD tranny. I have several questions but first let me tell you what I am thinking. My plans were to use a supercharged 3.8 V6 T-bird Super Coupe engine with an M5R2 five speed manual OD tranny and transfer case from a circa 1990 F-150. I had the original transmission from the T-Bird but there was no way to mate the tranny to a transfer case so I sold it and bought the version with transfer case. See http://www.pvpmedia.com/m5r2-SC.JPG and http://www.pvpmedia.com/m5r2_4wd_mazda_transmission.jpg to see these transmissions. If you look at the pictures you will see that I am having a real problem with the location of the top loaded shifter on the tranny being way too far forward. This has been a real problem for me and as of yet I have no practical solution. It occurred to me I might be better off with an automatic transmission. One of the main goals of this project has been to have a 4WD truck that does not look like a 4WD. So far I am headed in that direction as the body and bed will sit down enough to make the truck look like is just another 2WD '53.
I'm thinking the tranny and transfer case combo I mentioned above from the '93 F-150 my be the answer to my problems. However, I do not know what transmission it is and if it is electronic. If it is, I think that will create problems for me as the ECM for the T-Bird engine is set up for a manual tranny. My second question is will the flex plate and TC from the '93 with the 302 fit and work with the 3.8L SC engine. I know it will bolt up because 302 and the 3.8L are the same so far as the bell housing bolt pattern is concerned.If any of you folks out there have answers please let me know. I need to make a decision real soon or this deal will be gone.
Later Folks...
Darkside Dave
__________________
stevof1- Posts : 41
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 60
Location : Petaluma, CA
Dave I don't know what will or will not work with that combo, so I'm no help there! Wanted to let you know I'm following your post and that you aren't alone here! Engine placement is crucial to making life easier. In my 48 I got around the shifter issue, by using a B&M cable link truck shifter, for my auto c-6 transmission. Not sure what's available for 4x4 setups. My biggest problem right now is the steering box and motor mount locations on the driver's side are making putting headers in on that side a real issue! Anyway I hope someone more knowledgeable than I chime in soon. Steve.
tomget- Posts : 144
Join date : 2009-06-13
Location : California
That kind of user friendly fitment..is a concern. How far forward is the shifter? Its inside the cab i trust. I've got a 48IH pickup and the Hurst shifter with GM tranny was directly under my right leg or maybe between my legs and such so I fabbed an elaborate bent over and up shift lever that solved the problem and is still working well after many years. I know it would be harder with what you have...but is something like that worth experimenting with?
wmjoe1953- Posts : 187
Join date : 2009-05-06
Age : 46
Location : Madras, Oregon U.S.A.
Hey Dave. Making a shifter arm/lever that is bent, will only partially impact the shifter performance. It will not be as tight, and short a throw as if it was with an oe handle, but it will work still. Second, it doesn't appear that the 5.0, and 3.8 share the same flex plate, as the 5.0 is a 50oz imbalence , and the 3.8 I beleive is neutral, with a balance shaft. I would try bending a peice of rod, and test fitting a shifter with the manual trans, and cab in place. Call me if you need to bs about parts.....541-497-3258
MidniteAuto- Posts : 1
Join date : 2011-10-19
Location : Michigan
Hey I would go with a 302 EFI for the swap, the 3,8 is good but the 302 will drop right in with no problems, The 4 spd. OD MAZDA is a great trans Might have to bend the shifter a little.
Post up some new picts of where your at on this, I am kinda new here.
Post up some new picts of where your at on this, I am kinda new here.
Darkside Dave- Admin
- Posts : 1018
Join date : 2009-04-21
Age : 79
Location : Marietta, Ohio
Thanks to all for the response. I will have to wait a bit until I get the ruck back in the shop. Right now I need my limited shop space to do som,e work in. I really didn't figure I would be back on the truck before March so it's better off tucked away as opposed to just being shoved out in the rain and weather. Here is a picture of approximately where the shifter is plus or minus an inch.
The 302 from the '93 truck is not really thatnmuch of a performer, especially compaired to the SC engine with the super charger. I know that is not really necessary but it sure as hell would be unique and different. I've seen a shitload of these old trucks with 302s in them but never one with this engine. I actually figureed out kow ti set up the linkage with some machine and fabricatint wor using two Ford steering universal joints and a second shifter ball socket form another tranny. It would require modifying the floor tranny tunnel some. While I think the M5R2 would be fun for a while I figure I would get tired of driving it on long trips. Also, I don't think there is enough room up tight under the HVAC stuff to bring up the shifter there and also get it bent back. I think I'd really like the automatic 4 speed OD tranny but it can't be one of the electronic versions. That was why I was asking if anyone knows what was used in the '93 F-150 and how it would mate up to the SC engine. It bolts up OK but I'm not sure about the flex plate and TC.
Later Folks...
Darkside Dave
Darkside Dave- Admin
- Posts : 1018
Join date : 2009-04-21
Age : 79
Location : Marietta, Ohio
MidniteAuto wrote:Hey I would go with a 302 EFI for the swap, the 3,8 is good but the 302 will drop right in with no problems, The 4 spd. OD MAZDA is a great trans Might have to bend the shifter a little.
Post up some new picts of where your at on this, I am kinda new here.
If you go back through the nine pages of this post, it pretty much is up to date picture wise. I have not been working on this for at least the last six months. Too many other distractions and things that needed done.
Darkside Dave
wmjoe1953- Posts : 187
Join date : 2009-05-06
Age : 46
Location : Madras, Oregon U.S.A.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-7210-B/ Take a look at this. It the remote mounted shifter for a late model Mustang. Obviously, you posess the skills to alter it as needed.
Darkside Dave- Admin
- Posts : 1018
Join date : 2009-04-21
Age : 79
Location : Marietta, Ohio
wmjoe1953 wrote:http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-7210-B/ Take a look at this. It the remote mounted shifter for a late model Mustang. Obviously, you posess the skills to alter it as needed.
Thanks Joe,
That is pretty much what I had in mind to make with some variation. I'm sure a day or so with the lathe, milling machine and welder would be time well spent to avoid the $169.00 price tag but if one did not have the equipment or time the price is not all that bad. I'm just one of those guys who takes a lot of pleasure in designing and making something as opposed to buying it if at all possible and practical. Besides, I have to show myself some justification for having all this equipment. I will however book mark this in case I get lazy.
Later Man...
Darkside Dave
DL BOGART- Posts : 55
Join date : 2010-11-05
Location : wyoming
Looks like that one from summit would be a bolt in, but since it is a replacement one to give shorter throws, maybe somebody has a stock one they took out to put that in for sale, maybe e-bay, or swap meets? trash can at your local speed shop? If you could scrounge one of them it should make your fab time much shorter, and since this gonna be more of a grocery getter anyways, the longer throws from a discarded stock unit shouldn't be a concern.
wmjoe1953- Posts : 187
Join date : 2009-05-06
Age : 46
Location : Madras, Oregon U.S.A.
That Summit link also has pretty good install instructions. You can download them in a PDF, and reference them as you design, and build your own. Bogarts idea works too, except that finding a shop that still has one laying around might be tough. If there is a part of a stock you might need, I can check through work (since I work at a Ford dealership), and see what is actually available, and how much. I may be able to also get a breakdown of the actual assembly, and upload it.
Darkside Dave- Admin
- Posts : 1018
Join date : 2009-04-21
Age : 79
Location : Marietta, Ohio
To Joe and Bogart,
The one for the Mustang in the Summit catalog is pretty much the same thing that I had in mind to build. Unfortunately it will not work on the 4WD version of the M5R2 due to differences in the design. If you go to https://darksidersrealm.forumotion.com/t204p15-first-53-build-thread at about half way down what is page two of this thread, you will see the transmission I have. As you can see it is different than the Mustang tranny. If you noticed from the PDF from Summit, the shifter mechanism is pretty much the same design as the one it replaces except that it shortens the shift stroke. It operates a single shaft into the tranny. What I need to do is connect to and already established shifter lever. My plan is to use the bottom connector of a shift lever with a small steering u-joint welded to it at a right angle. This is connected to a square shaft laying back over the top of the tranny to another identical u-joint which is welded to the base of another shift lever fastened to the ball socket of a shift mechanism I removed from the top of as junk transmission. I doubt this description explains much without the benefit of some pictures or diagrams. Unfortunately I can't provide any of that at this time.
My point is to seek information regarding an automatic transmission I an thinking of acquiring as a alternative to the 5-speed OD manual tranny I have. The manual tranny is fun but I see no real benefit to me. as a cruiser I would just as soon have an automatic. However, I only have a few days to decide on it and I need some info to do that. If the transmission and transfer case combo is an electronic transmission, (EOD as opposed to AOD), I can't use it because the ECM for the SC engine has no provision for controlling it. I jst need to know what automatic transmission was used in the '93 F-150 with 4WD and a 302. I thought it would be a simple question for all the Ford truck guys out there.
It seems that I have instead invited a lot of suggestions as to how to use my existing tranny. One person has suggested that I go with the 302 that I can get with the transmission. My recollections of the 302s of that particular time that were used in the trucks is that it was not a great performer. As a matter of fact my V6 SC engine would kick the 302's butt. I also specifically asked if the flex plate and TC would work with the SC engine. So far I have no answers to any of those questions. The net result of all this is I am no further than when I started asking these questions. Hopefully someone will have an answer before I need to make a decision or a 240 mile round trip.
Later Folks...
Darkside Dave
wmjoe1953- Posts : 187
Join date : 2009-05-06
Age : 46
Location : Madras, Oregon U.S.A.
Go with an AOD. Here's a Hemmings link
http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2006/05/01/hmn_feature5.html
Here's a pretty good article for a c-4 to AOD swap. Appears to have a lot of very good detailed info.
http://www.themustangshop.com/c4toaod.cfm/
http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2006/05/01/hmn_feature5.html
Here's a pretty good article for a c-4 to AOD swap. Appears to have a lot of very good detailed info.
http://www.themustangshop.com/c4toaod.cfm/
wmjoe1953- Posts : 187
Join date : 2009-05-06
Age : 46
Location : Madras, Oregon U.S.A.
Oh yeah, to answer your question.....the AOD was used from about '80-'93. It should be an AOD in a '93 F-150.
Darkside Dave- Admin
- Posts : 1018
Join date : 2009-04-21
Age : 79
Location : Marietta, Ohio
I was thinking the same thing but the guy claims it's a 4 speed OD tranny. Is the AOD a four speed? I don't remember. There is also the issue of whether the flex plate and the TC from the 302 will work on the 3.8L SC engine. Now I am again thinking of sticking with the current set up. When I get it back in the shop I am going to try positioning the engine forwards and higher to clear all the 4WD stuff and also allowing enough room to clear the HVAC stuff on the outside of the firewall. I think I will find a mustang in the bone yards with a linkage set up still in tact and liberate it. I think I can modify it do what I want.
It will be at least a month or so before I get the truck back in my shop. When I do I will go abouit checking this out. Right now I have too much going on. I have to get the cab of the '54 COE stripped down to see what else I need. I have a set of good doors coming from Carl down in Phoenix for it. Thanks to you for that find.
Later Man...
Darkside Dave
wmjoe1953- Posts : 187
Join date : 2009-05-06
Age : 46
Location : Madras, Oregon U.S.A.
The AOD is an overdrive automatic. It does not use a computer to control it. The 5.0 is a 50 oz. imbalance, and the 3.8 is internal with a balance shaft. So no, the 5.0 flex plate won't work on it.
Darkside Dave- Admin
- Posts : 1018
Join date : 2009-04-21
Age : 79
Location : Marietta, Ohio
wmjoe1953 wrote:The AOD is an overdrive automatic. It does not use a computer to control it. The 5.0 is a 50 oz. imbalance, and the 3.8 is internal with a balance shaft. So no, the 5.0 flex plate won't work on it.
I suspected as much and it has now been verified by both you and havi. So it appears that I only need to get the right flex plate. I assume this means the TC from the F-150 with 302 will work.
Later Man...
Darkside Dave
wmjoe1953- Posts : 187
Join date : 2009-05-06
Age : 46
Location : Madras, Oregon U.S.A.
Darkside Dave wrote:wmjoe1953 wrote:The AOD is an overdrive automatic. It does not use a computer to control it. The 5.0 is a 50 oz. imbalance, and the 3.8 is internal with a balance shaft. So no, the 5.0 flex plate won't work on it.
I suspected as much and it has now been verified by both you and havi. So it appears that I only need to get the right flex plate. I assume this means the TC from the F-150 with 302 will work.
Later Man...
Darkside Dave
I believe the converter will.
Darkside Dave- Admin
- Posts : 1018
Join date : 2009-04-21
Age : 79
Location : Marietta, Ohio
I believe the converter will.
In the end I will probably get a new converter and rebuild the tranny but I figured that I would go for a heavy duty version of the one for the truck. There is a place in California that rebuilds TC's and I bought a heavy duty version for my one ton diesel van that was about $50.00 extra but they weld in all the vanes and use a bigger and heavier duty bearing inside. I'm pretty happy with it. I need to shop around to find a deal on the flex plate. I wouldn't mind a used one if the gear teeth aren't chewed up.
Later Man...
Darkside Dave
Darkside Dave- Admin
- Posts : 1018
Join date : 2009-04-21
Age : 79
Location : Marietta, Ohio
Hi Folks,
I think I found the flexplate I need. Check out http://www.theautopartsshop.com/auto-trans-flexplate/dor04668.html# and see if you guys agree. Also check out http://www.theautopartsshop.com/auto+car-usa+parts+year/ford+thunderbird+auto-trans-flexplate+1990.html which is the previous page on this vendor's site. It shows two choices for the 1990 T-bird 3.8L engine. The bottom one is noted speciffically for the SC engine. I'm not sure why there are different flexplates for the SC as opposed to the non super charged version. Neither version shown has the tooth count listed. Compared to what some places list the price is reasonable. I sure would not consider doing this switch to the AOD if the damn flexplate was going to cost me more than the tranny and transfer case.
I do however wonder if the transfer case with the AOD is a manual or an electric controled unit. Does anyone out there know which was standard with an AOD and 302 combo in a '93 F-150? I am also wondering if the starter I have for the manual M5R2 tranny will work for the AOD.
Later Folks...
Darkside Dave
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