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DARKSIDER In the world of automotive hobbyists a Darksider is one who modifies and or customizes any and all sorts of vehicles. The Darksiders are in a class of their own simply because they endeavor to be different and do things that others would not attempt for a number of reasons mostly being related to a lack of ability and fear of non conformity.

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Darksider's Realm

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    so what do we call old here ?????????????

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    55f350

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    so what do we call old here ?????????????

    Post  55f350 on Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:05 am

    anyone ??? i mean that bird i bought is a going to be 15 years old soon , and it don't seem like it . or are we gonna divide ourselves up into lil' cliques like seems to be done so often ??? i mean i got more than a few crazy notions concerning that bird i'd be willing to throw out for your ridicule but only in the appropriate spot , of course ! P.S. dam- late model goodies are EXPENSIVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! SHEEZ I COULD BUILD A COUPLE OF FLATTIES FOR WHAT A MILD BUILD ON THAT 4.6 IS GONNA COST !
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    Re: so what do we call old here ?????????????

    Post  Darkside Dave on Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:17 pm


    Hey Kevin,

    If you think it's old, call it old... Maybe it's everything that is not new anymore.

    I think that flathead stuff is pretty pricey myself. This is one reason I tend to look for stuff that is running decent and just use it.


    Later Man...


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    Re: so what do we call old here ?????????????

    Post  havi on Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:25 pm

    What is old? Something not new. My perspective on this is that any vehicle can be darksided, which is the focus of this forum. The sub-forum here is labeled old cars. A sub-forum labeled new cars could work, too. However, IMO, the newer the vehicle, the harder it is to modify without creating a chain of events due to engine management systems, emissions, etc.... But you name it, someone out there is figuring out a way to mod it. Tuners for example. I understand what they're doing, though I wouldn't do it myself, because I have "old" cars to work on instead. Very Happy
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    Re: so what do we call old here ?????????????

    Post  Darkside Dave on Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:44 pm


    Yeah, What he said...


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    55f350

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    Re: so what do we call old here ?????????????

    Post  55f350 on Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:10 am

    cool so when i get some time i'll sit down and scribble out the plans for a certain bird here and let the ridicule and puzzled looks begin !
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    Re: so what do we call old here ?????????????

    Post  Guest on Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:51 am

    I'm sure a lot of you are old enough to remember when the dividing point was accepted as 1948.
    Cars made before 48 are old or antique.
    Cars made after 48 are modern with overhead valves, automatics, independent suspension and air conditioning
    I know a woman who thinks her 6 year old car is 'old'.
    Thats just plain wrong
    unless it is so poorly made as to be near the end of its life
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    Old ???

    Post  Darkside Dave on Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:25 pm


    Hi bgarret,

    Hmmm, six is old??? In that case I'm in trouble, I'm still payin' for an old vehicle. My truck turned six in March. But the good thing is it still looks good and only has 48K on the meter. Heck, it still has the code stickers on the chassis. At 50K a pop I don't think I'll go out and buy another one.

    But, on the other hand, if the line is at 1948 then I'm sorry to know my '53s are not old. I was so hoping they were antiques. The state of Ohio says they are antiques if they are over 25 years old. According to that there are a lot of people here in Redneck Land driving antiques. But they all look like junk cause they are covered with whiskey bumps.

    Later Man...



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    Re: so what do we call old here ?????????????

    Post  Guest on Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:58 pm

    Oh boy!
    Now you've done it!
    Can you see the smoke coming out of my ears? Smile

    How can anybody think of a 1984 Mitsubishi as an antique???????

    No, I think we need to keep the time honored 1948 division and confine ourselves to American made cars

    (and I do not consider a japanese car assembled in Kentucky to be an American car)
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    Re: so what do we call old here ?????????????

    Post  Guest on Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:00 pm

    I should edit my previous post.
    A 6 year old car is not old, no matter its condition
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    Darkside Dave
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    Re: so what do we call old here ?????????????

    Post  Darkside Dave on Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:17 pm

    bgarrett wrote:Oh boy!
    Now you've done it!
    Can you see the smoke coming out of my ears? Smile

    How can anybody think of a 1984 Mitsubishi as an antique???????

    No, I think we need to keep the time honored 1948 division and confine ourselves to American made cars

    (and I do not consider a japanese car assembled in Kentucky to be an American car)



    I'll go you one further... I don't consider any rice grinder made anywhere to be and American car. I just watched the History Channel series WWII in HD. If anybody can watch that and even think that any rice grinder is and American car they need serious psychiatric care and shock therapy.

    But give me a break here Man, My '53s are 56 years old. That ought to count for something... However you have managed to classify me as an antique by three years.

    Later Man...



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    Re: so what do we call old here ?????????????

    Post  55f350 on Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:52 am

    you just said the very reason why i can't accept a car of oriental decent dave , and even have trouble with german although i am half german in decent . i had relatives in ww2 korea , and vietnam , and from the things i've heard seen and observed i cannot , willnot forget what pos 's they were to the world at that time . i also can't agree with the 48 dividing line and never have . i think it needs to be moved up into the late 50's early 60's as the styling cues into these years still represent an era of excess and automotive glitz that even at shows complement each other . after 64 , 65 things changed , not for the worse till the late 70's but they changed .
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    Re: so what do we call old here ?????????????

    Post  Darkside Dave on Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:03 pm

    55f350 wrote:you just said the very reason why i can't accept a car of oriental decent dave , and even have trouble with german although i am half german in decent . i had relatives in ww2 korea , and vietnam , and from the things i've heard seen and observed i cannot , willnot forget what pos 's they were to the world at that time . i also can't agree with the 48 dividing line and never have . i think it needs to be moved up into the late 50's early 60's as the styling cues into these years still represent an era of excess and automotive glitz that even at shows complement each other . after 64 , 65 things changed , not for the worse till the late 70's but they changed .



    So, what it comes down to is that it's basically an eye of the beholder thing and therefore based on opinion. One factor that needs to be taken into account is that as the years advance eventually everything will become an antique. Maybe the best thing to do is to go with the current and accepted definmition which has no bearing on a specific year of origin.

    Here you go:


    An antique (Latin: antiquus; old) is an old collectible item. It is collected or desirable because of its age, rarity, condition, utility, or other unique features. It is an object that represents a previous era in human society.

    Antiques are usually objects which show some degree of craftsmanship, or a certain attention to design such as a desk or the early automobile. They are bought at antique shops, or passed down as an estate. Some valuable antiques can be bought from antique dealers and auction services or purchased online through websites and online auctions. Antique dealers are often members of national trade associations, many of which themselves belong to CINOA, a confederation of art and antique associations across 21 countries, representing 5000 dealers.


    I think it is better to define year marks as specific eras and in cars and trucks that would probably best be defined by technological advancements.

    Anyway, that's the way I see it...

    As for those rice grinders, I think of them in the same way as fat girls and mopeds, they're fun to ride but I wouldn't want to be seen on them.

    Later Man...


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    Old cars

    Post  koth on Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:54 pm

    I thought I'd put my two cents worth in on this antique thing. This forum is about darksiders not restoration purists so when you chop it tub it blow it and slam it on the ground. Is it still an antique.Who gives a damn how old it is. The idea is to make it your own no matter what year it was built.Darkside Dave your 53's will be better than antique they will be unique and that is what this is all about.The rice grinders are really not my thing but most of them are younger guys so we should at least give them credit for stepping away from the X Box and getting there hands dirty their at least trying to stand out from the crowd.
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    Re: so what do we call old here ?????????????

    Post  havi on Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:33 pm

    Ironically, the 1978 F150 4x4 I've had all these years, I don't consider antique, but I'll call it old. Even the '48 F1 I have I call old, and not antique. I guess, personally, I'll call a Model T or A an antique, but that's just me. Anything from the 80's? I dunno, but here's a quick story: When I drove my '88 Tbird daily, I pulled into a McDonald's drive-thru, and the teller said, "Hey, vintage classic!" I was confused, and said, "What?" He said, "Your car. Classic!" I replied, "Oh, that?!? uh, ok, um, thanks." I laughed all the way home the next 40 miles. The following year I found the FTBCF site, and realized, these cars actually had a following, lol. Old? I dunno, antique? no way, vintage classic? I guess so, lol.
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    Re: so what do we call old here ?????????????

    Post  FORDBOYpete on Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:22 am

    The whole concept of labelling what's old, what's antique, what's new, what's vintage & what's not, what is & what isn't, and here's what breaks me up. . . . What is a street rod and what is not??????????????? When guys first started actually "Hot Rodding" cars, soon after Henry put a flattie in a Deuce, a street rod was one driven on the street, a Lakester was driven on a dry lake and a track car was, amazingly enough one driven on a track as in "Track - T". When Wally Parks developed a notion of DRAG RACING because STREET RODS were racing in the street, he sanctioned and officialized the NHRA. SO what we have here is the "Muddle of Semantics".

    Semantics is what Humans do with words & verbiage to confuse others so we are not sure or certain of what they are actually saying, in 1st place, Doncha See? Although we may know what they are talking about, we are prevented from actually knowing what they are saying (a semantic squiggle) and/or what they mean. It's like media, Lawyers, Politicians & all who use & rely on theatrics of semantic manipulation to sort or control "others" like me. Why must all things be classified, catagorized, identified, sorted, labled and all that crap, Especially Machinery?
    Dave Makes the point "It's in the eye of the beholder", He's 100% Correct, IMHO. If a guy builds a crap can, it looks like a crap can, it runs like a crap can, but he calls it a street rod since it is made of pre 49 parts who is right, NSRA & him, or reality? It is what it is. If it looks like dog turds, smells like dog turds, and tastes like dog turds then it's a good bet it is dog turds. That's sort of basic.

    NSRA which I reject off handedly because they're so WRONG, insists "0" (I guess it's beginning of time) thru 1948 is a street rod, and so is a 2009 or Kit Car with a Brookville Tin replacement Body that looks like 48 or earlier, WHAT????? There were and still are many Autos street driven & hot rodded too, and infact there still are but even though they are and were built to perform in the street, they are not street rods according to some self annointed agency or group? WHoa!!! This is the land of the free. I care less what category or niche my "Junque" falls into in eyes of some "Holier than me" self appointed group of elitest lablers & rule makers. All my stuff is hot rodded in some way, except Mamma's Taurus. What matters to me is can I run with or beat whatever I choose to try out?

    I have a 85 T-Bird or Generation #8 T-Bird which was an 5.0L - CFI, EEC-IV, Elan' Coupe. It's a tad over 24 years old and it certainly is niether OEM Stock, New, nor "Not A T-Bird". It says so. It has Thunderbird right on it & has T-Bird emblems too. T-Bird "specialists" continue to call it a new T-Bird. I met a guy with a 70 T-Bird 4 dr Sedan with a 429 DOVE and he's telling me I don't have a T-Bird. I had to laff in his face outright. A 70 4 door sedan with a passenger car look, function, engine & suicide doors, is NOT one of America's earliest "sports Cars" by any stretch of any imagination or hallucination either. To further push the issue he stated what do you say about that. As I turned & walked away I mentioned I do not argue against Ingorance and I avoid converstaion with certifiable idiots. His friends or cohorts restrained him as I(we)walked away laffing at them all. LAughter is the best medicine, Ha.

    My point is I don't care what people think about my cars, trucks, rods, lawnmowers or whatever. It's mine, I can think what I want about it. I have no need to discuss it with people I don't care about. All the specialists, self annointed experts, robed Gurus other dreamers in OUR world need to accept that fundamental Constitutional concept.
    If folks have an irrepressible need to label what I own, build & drive, try "Pete's Junk" that settles it for me.

    It Is A Un-Winnable Discourse and therefore will probably always be so.


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    Re: so what do we call old here ?????????????

    Post  havi on Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:09 pm

    Yeah, but Pete, your lawnmower rocks!, lol
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    Who Knew ???

    Post  Darkside Dave on Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:53 am


    Hi Folks,

    Man,,, when I started this board I knew it would go off on some weird tangents, but I never expected and in depth debate on the definition of old as it applies to vehicles. As I stated before, I'm an eye of the beholder guy but I do see how some people would have a need to define if for no other reason but to establish a personal benchmark. However, that is not the reason for my post here.

    Allow me to make some observational comments here. Koth made a good point. This board is really about what we do to these vehicles. For the most part there are no true restorations represented here in the Darkside. The purists who are into that sort of stuff have a deep seated resentment for those of us who modify. I do find their views and opinions to be somewhat short sided and even hypocritical. They raise all sorts of hell about the things we do, but if they find a vehicle that in most cases has deteriorated to the state of the ones we find they would just harvest parts from it until it's completely gone. There is nothing wrong with that but I find it highly illogical because they think it's OK to do that but not OK to do what we do. At least the spirit and aesthetics of the vehicles live on in something that is far more likely to be driven down the road for the public to see and appreciate as opposed to sitting in some garage or trailer only to be seen at a few parades or car shows. I mean seriously Folks... Look at it this way, which is more impressive, an old house that someone has simply cleaned up and polished or an old house that someone has modernized and made livable by today's standards? See my point??? Who are they kidding here??? Themselves maybe??? Since we tend to change everything, the definition and value of our vehicles is not related to age. here on the Darkside it's a moot point. I can't believe anyone here gives a fat rat's ass if something is old or not. I mean what's the point???

    As Darksiders we do what we do for a number of reasons which can be a combination of any or all of them. Some of us just like to build this stuff. Others are more interested in the finish product. And if you are like me, both things are a motivation. It has always been my goal to make this board a place to discuss and display ideas and projects regardless of age or origin be it domestic or foreign. What it is doesn't matter, what you have done to it is all that matters. There will always be a certain amount of healthy debate here on what is right and what is wrong and most, if not all of that is opinion. I say that's great and just what this board is about. I am really hoping that the people here get into that stuff more and are concerned less about stuff like the definition of old.

    I realize that all of us are constrained by many limitations in our lives that prevent or delay us from spending all of out time in the shop turning out great things every day. However, I also would be willing to wager that practically all of us who hang out here are almost always thinking about some idea or project and we are also the kind of people who are constantly thinking things out in our head about how we want to do or make something. That is the kind of stuff I want to see on this board. To that end I am going to start a sticky thread that will make a place for that sort of discussion to continue and thrive. Watch for an e-mail about it. When I get it up and located in a general category that can be used for ideas about all kinds of projects I'll let you Folks know. Maybe later today or tonight. Until then I hope you all have a great Thanksgiving and enjoy the time with friends and relatives. My son Sean, aka Frankentruck here on the Darkside, and his wife Heather are up from Atlanta for the week and we are having a great time. Maybe later when you folks are sitting around digesting all that food you will be getting some ideas about what you can contribute to the new thread. Excessive eating does lead to napping and really weired dreams...

    Later Folks...


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    Re: so what do we call old here ?????????????

    Post  55f350 on Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:48 am

    you know i can see most sides of the argument here . i'm kinda in a weird mood though , kinda introspective , and really the more i think about it if we as a group , motor heads , whatever were called , irregardless of our tastes , don't stick together our hot rods are gonna be banned as gross pollutors or .... and we'll all have to drive olive drab econo boxes and wear plaid polyester leisure suits just like the other government controlled drones we live with . so as of now i'm going to try to change my outlook and opinions and accept 'em all as bretheren , despite our choices of vehicle .
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    Re: so what do we call old here ?????????????

    Post  Darkside Dave on Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:52 pm

    55f350 wrote:you know i can see most sides of the argument here . i'm kinda in a weird mood though , kinda introspective , and really the more i think about it if we as a group , motor heads , whatever were called , irregardless of our tastes , don't stick together our hot rods are gonna be banned as gross pollutors or .... and we'll all have to drive olive drab econo boxes and wear plaid polyester leisure suits just like the other government controlled drones we live with . so as of now i'm going to try to change my outlook and opinions and accept 'em all as bretheren , despite our choices of vehicle .


    Good Point there Kevin...

    Hey, I think I have one of those suits.

    I think we were just kicking the point around in the post you started. I doubt that anybody here got that excited about the "True Definition" of old. I know I didn't. For me it was just a way to shoot the bull and play the devil's advocate. I just like to stir things up once in a while. Personally I like to look at all the stuff people build. That especially goes for the stuff people make their own parts for as opposed to catalog and wallet jobs.

    Later...


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    Post  koth on Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:03 pm

    Sometimes discussions like the one that has been going on about just what is a old car on here is a good thing because we start to relize we have one thing in common. Sometimes we can disagree but to differing degrees we are all DARKSIDERS and KEVIN is right we all gotta stick together because none of us want anybody telling us what we can and can't do to our vehicles to make them our own.
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    Post  DL BOGART on Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:07 am

    Amen Pete!! Well stated. Even My wifes '78 omega has had a 4barrel carter put on by me in place of the 2bbl, so even though it still is a bit of a turd of the line it's been "hot rodded"(DON"T TELL HER!!)

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