Darksider's Realm

(this is not a place for lazy video game freaks. We Darksiders have been around doing our thing for decades before the mindless couch blobs latched onto the term Darksider)



DARKSIDER In the world of automotive hobbyists a Darksider is one who modifies and or customizes any and all sorts of vehicles. The Darksiders are in a class of their own simply because they endeavor to be different and do things that others would not attempt for a number of reasons mostly being related to a lack of ability and fear of non conformity.

This is a forum for people who think outside the box in everything they do. It doesn’t matter if you are modifying or building from scratch. It doesn’t matter what brand or brands of vehicles or components you are using. It doesn’t matter if you are working on a mini car or a bus.

We will not be asking you for donations or any kind of monetary payments. We will be asking for help in terms moderators and encouraging you to spread the word and add to our membership.

Darksider's Realm

A message board & forum for automotive builders, fabricators and customizers who think outside the box.


    my 51 truck

    Share
    avatar
    jayboy3

    Posts : 17
    Join date : 2009-06-22
    Location : North Carolina

    my 51 truck

    Post  jayboy3 on Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:14 pm

    So it appears some of you will know me, but some may not. I have a 51 f3 that has been installed on a galaxie frame. It had a flatbed but i removed it to put a bed on and then realized i needed just an f1 frame. Now I have a truck in the garage with the front end off, the wiring tore out, the bed off, and most of the int. parts out.

    Outside I have the f1 frame sitting waiting to get started on. That basically is where i am. I need to something on the frame first I would think. So I will leave it at that for now. Joy to be here.

    By the way, I have rebuilt a bunch of newer vehicles, but these old ones seem alot funner.
    avatar
    charger

    Posts : 148
    Join date : 2009-06-15
    Age : 42
    Location : manitoba

    Re: my 51 truck

    Post  charger on Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:36 pm

    welcome to the Darkside,sounds like a really cool project!,something on the frame? are you talking suspension or box?
    avatar
    jayboy3

    Posts : 17
    Join date : 2009-06-22
    Location : North Carolina

    Re: my 51 truck

    Post  jayboy3 on Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:48 pm

    Both, thats how I was led over here. I need to get some kind of suspension ideas going. The mustang 2 stuff online is pretty high, so I was looking at what the other options I have are. The only thing I can do real good is body work and prep work. Never been trained on welding and cutting stuff so it will have to be done by someone else. thats why I was wondering what would be some good ideas to look into. I will also need the bed at some point, but I could say it would be some time before its needed.
    avatar
    charger

    Posts : 148
    Join date : 2009-06-15
    Age : 42
    Location : manitoba

    Re: my 51 truck

    Post  charger on Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:53 am

    i`ve got a 55 so its a bit wider, if i were in your shoes i would of scored a s10 frame,it would probably be the cheapest way to do this, build yourself a set of cab mounts and your ready to go!as for the box i`ve built my own but haven`t posted anything on here yet about it, it cost me around $600bux tailgate and roll pan included.
    avatar
    Darkside Dave
    Admin

    Posts : 1018
    Join date : 2009-04-21
    Age : 72
    Location : Marietta, Ohio

    Re: my 51 truck

    Post  Darkside Dave on Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:17 am

    I've never tried it but I have read several places that the Dodge Dakota is even better than the S-10 frame.

    I prefer to fab my own frames from rectangular tube and graft in both front and rear suspension. However, I am just about ready to start on the first of my two '53s which I an going to set on a '99 Explorer 4WD rolling chassis. I am going to use the floor pan and firewall of the '99 Explorer so mounting won't be a problem. I will be beefing up the frame a bit because I am going to use a 351-W and tranny out of an '83 F-150.

    I think as long as you take your time you could do the welding and cutting you need to do if you decide to mod that frame you bought. Get yourself a decent MIG welder. They are really easy to learn to use.

    Check out the posts here by lowlid. He built his own bed from scratch and bought fenders for it.

    Later Man...


    _________________
    <br>
    avatar
    charger

    Posts : 148
    Join date : 2009-06-15
    Age : 42
    Location : manitoba

    Re: my 51 truck

    Post  charger on Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:25 pm

    yeh dakota would also work! see were full of ideas here, now you just have to decide what to do!
    avatar
    jayboy3

    Posts : 17
    Join date : 2009-06-22
    Location : North Carolina

    Re: my 51 truck

    Post  jayboy3 on Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:48 pm

    OH man, moving to the darkside really 'clouded my mind'. You see, for those who don't know the whole story, I got this truck thru an enheritance. I don't know who decided to what they did to it, that is putting it on the galaxie frame...I don't know how long ago it was done....so I sure as heck didn't know what I had when I got it. I just knew it looked cool and it drove. This was back in march or so.

    So I went to where everyone goes for info when you don't know, the internet. Those searches showed me what an f3 should look like and let me know mine was not right somewhere. So I thought I could get me a bed for it...wrong...you can't find f3 beds and no one is intrested in making one. So from my experience with salvage rebuilds i have done, I knew that frames could be cut and messed with in the right hands...so I checked out the idea of taking the length out of the frame..Thats when the guys over there figured out it was a galaxie, or somewhat a galaxie frame.

    After much talk with people on there and two guys where i live, the general opinion was to find an orginal frame and do the upgrades to it so I would not run into problems...That is making my f3 into an F1. I actually saw somewhere on the net a guy putting his f1 on a s 10 and thought that would be the trick, but when I mentioned that to the guys in my area they were like, you will have to makes all kinds of stuff and talked me out of it...so like i said to start with, my mind is clouded with info....if I were to go with an s 10 or dakota now, would most everything i need have to be fabricated to get stuff mounted up? Also the guys truck I went and looked at from my area....he had a mustang 2 kit and a 4 link on the back...he acted like it was no problem to put on.
    I could most likey get both for under 3000, since I really don't know how to fabricate metal parts and stuff like that, would i not come out better doing this. It would all be new stuff, would not need new parts..Anyway that was a bunch, and I might sound stupid, but its because i am....na i can figure out alot of stuff but this I don't know about. Just a history on my story for anyone who didn't know it
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest

    Re: my 51 truck

    Post  Guest on Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:12 pm

    You can run the original frame and front axle and brakes.
    I dont know anything about your original rear axle but I think it would be easy to upgrade to a nine inch pickup axle.
    avatar
    Darkside Dave
    Admin

    Posts : 1018
    Join date : 2009-04-21
    Age : 72
    Location : Marietta, Ohio

    Re: my 51 truck

    Post  Darkside Dave on Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:00 pm

    Are you staying stock or running a bigger later model engine? If you are staying stock you can go with all the original suspension and brakes. IOf not you need to beef up the frame. Again it means welding and fab work. It seems to me your problem here is that you don't have any of the original suspension and parts. So, we're back to square one. I still thionk a late model rolling chassis is best for you. sell that frame to a resto-purist.

    Later Man...


    _________________
    <br>
    avatar
    jayboy3

    Posts : 17
    Join date : 2009-06-22
    Location : North Carolina

    Re: my 51 truck

    Post  jayboy3 on Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:52 pm

    Yea, I am going with the 289 thats in it since I already have it. I am thinking that my rearend is a 9 inch but it could be an 8 inch acording so some, don't know. If I got the s 10 frame, can I put the 289 in it? I also read something about the frame rising up on the back of the s 10, something about the stock bed would have to have the floor raised up to acomadate. I guess I am asking because I would need to know these things in explaining them to whomever I find to do the fabricating. I just don't know the right people around here. Unless you guys could give me instruction and measurements on how to make the stuff. I feel like I could, just not completely sure.

    How much would a rolling s 10 or dakota be? I know where a dakota is right now just sitting because some kind of seal went out on it and the guy said they were going to have to pull the motor to fix it and it wasn't worth it so he parked it and bought another....I think its about a 90 model extended cab shortbed.
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest

    Re: my 51 truck

    Post  Guest on Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:57 pm

    I used a 1983 Ford Ranger frame under a 1940 Ford pickup.
    The ranger humped up under the cab, so I cut out the hump and welded in a straight section.
    avatar
    charger

    Posts : 148
    Join date : 2009-06-15
    Age : 42
    Location : manitoba

    Re: my 51 truck

    Post  charger on Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:12 am

    i did a 53 gmc last fall and the guy picked up the whole truck for $250.00, we used the frame brake booster, steering column, it was the easiest swap i ever made, yes you will loose some of your bed height because of the rear frame kick back but you gotta make a box anyways right? if you go this route you could be driving in a few weeks no problem,this is all based on a s10 dacota i`m not sure.


    [quote]



    these are all s10 to gmc mounts but a bit of measuring,fabrication and your on your way!instead of getting boxed steel,what i did is used steel plates, cut them exactly as the picture and welded them right up, instead of drilling holes for the frame mount measured 15 times and welded the brackets straight to the frame
    avatar
    Darkside Dave
    Admin

    Posts : 1018
    Join date : 2009-04-21
    Age : 72
    Location : Marietta, Ohio

    Re: my 51 truck

    Post  Darkside Dave on Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:01 am

    Is it OK if we call you Jay???

    I have slowly been building a mental picture of your truck and somewhat of an idea about you and your capabilities as limited by, knowledge, skill and available equipment and facilities. However the part about you still needs a lot of filling in. Therefore I am doing a lot of guessing at this point. If you really want good advice from the membership here you have to fill us in on a lot of the missing pieces. First we need a lot of pictures of your truck and what has been done to it. Not just pictures of the truck itself but get under it and under the hood. get them posted here on this thread, not in the gallery unless you already have a gallery someplace else. Remember, to post pics on a gallery here they have to already be hosted online someplace like photobucket or myspace.

    Next we need to know some things about you and what you have to work with. Answer the following questions:

    1. Do you have a garage to work in where you can work on a level floor and have enough space for your truck and another chassis beside it?

    2. Do you weld?

    3. Do you have a welder and if so is it a stick welder or a MIG? If you have a MIG does it have gas or is it just a flux core machine?

    4. Do you have an oxy-acetylene cutting torch?

    5. Do you have any kind of grinder?

    6. Do you have a compressor and air tools? If so what air tools do you have?

    7. Do you have an engine hoist?

    8. do you have at least four or more jack stands?

    9. Do you have one or more hydraulic jacks?

    10. Do you have a good selection of hand tools?

    11. Have you ever done anything like this before? If so tell us about it.

    12. Are you willing to invest the time and money required to do what you want?

    These are just a few of the things we need to know to help you out with your project. According to what I have read from you so far there are so many unknown variables, that all we can do is just throw suggestions at you or tell you what some of us have done. If you are looking for a fixed and guaranteed solution you are going to be greatly dissapointed because there sren't any. It just doesn't work that way. Basically you just start with a plan based on what you want and what you are capable of doing. then you find the basic parts you need to start with and work from there. The thing is that you will not be able to just go out, collect a big pile of parts, come home and throw it together in a weeek or so. A lot of builds you see here are taking or have taken years. Are you willing to commit to that sort of project?

    Here is what I think I know so far... If I'm wrong then set me straight. You have a '51 F-4 sitting on what you think is a Ford Galaxie rolling chassis with a 289. Apparently it was a bit of a hack job I gather. What I don't know is what generation of Galaxie the frame is from, what was retained of the Galaxie rolling chassis, what was modified and with what if it was. At this point I'm guessing somebody just more or less forced the '51 down on the Galaxie rolling chassis and hacked whatever was in the way out. Chances are you don't have anything left of the original cab mounting left on the cab and I would venture to guess that they have hacked up the cab and bed a good bit in the process. If I'm right you are goint to spend a lot of money just to get the cab back to the state where you can get it mounted on the original frame you bought. If you did and you still want to go with the 289 and whatever tranny you have, you will have to modify the old original frame. If you are dead set on using that 289 I think you would do well to look for a Ranger circa '95 because that is going to be about the easiest to put that engine in, You probably can get stock engine mounts from an Explorer to mount it. Otherwise you will have to do some good design and fab work.

    I have just barely scratched the surface here on telling you what you need to do and I could be way off on several points because you really have not given us that much to go on. So, first get us some pictures posted here on this thread. Then if you are up to the challenge we will help you get through this. You need to understand that we are all different, we have different ideas about doing stuff and that our answers regarding choice and opinion WILL NOT be the same. At some point no matter how much we tell you, you will have to do some thinking and make some final choices. there will be times when a choice or decision just doesn't work out and you will have to take a step back and do something different.

    Here is a link you should look at. This is to a Pull-A-Part yard around Charlotte, NC on the NE side right off of I-85. That is about as close as one as I can find for you. http://www.pullapart.com/Locations/LocationDetail.aspx?locationId=7 You can look at their inventory online. they have a fixed price list and you won't find a set price for what you need. You can get them to quote a complete rolling chassis by special request. Your best other bet is to watch for people selling a whole vehicle that you need the chassis from. Usually this is the cheapest way to go. You get what you want and sell off the rest or scrap it. People will sell off these things cheap if they have a serious problem or have been wrecked. You don't need a title so that will work in your favor too.

    I realize this is alot to digest for you but if we get through this part we can all do a better job of helping you. One major thing I see here is that you are not quite sure what you want to do.

    Later Man...


    _________________
    <br>
    avatar
    jayboy3

    Posts : 17
    Join date : 2009-06-22
    Location : North Carolina

    Re: my 51 truck

    Post  jayboy3 on Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:52 am

    Yea man, call me whatever, you probably have thought of calling me alot of things after reading some of my questions, but anyway let me see if I can give a total overview of me and my plans...

    First about me..I am 29 years old and work in cell phone tower cable production..work about 5 nine hour days so I have some free time in the afternoons and saturdays to work on this thing.
    I started rebuilding cars and trucks that had been wrecked about 12 years ago and have since rebuilt 4 tacoma(95 up to 00), a ford ranger, a nissan maxima, one tundra,a mazda melinia(thats not spelled right)and a jeep liberty.When I say rebuild I mean I buy them, take them to my garage, take whatever needs taken down off, and preep them for a man in my town to do the work....Now on a unibody like the cars or the Jeep liberty I purchase a clip of what I need, front, back side, whatever and take both parts to him and he puts it together. I will hang the fenders doors what not back on it when he gets done...Usually do all the trim painting like door jams, inner fenders, under hood, little stuff like that. I have done all kinds off stuff with these from changeing out locks on trunks and doors to taking all the leather and seat warmers off of one cars int to put it into another...thats why i say i can learn to do alot, but will try most anything once.

    I said all of that to sort of give you an idea where I stood on car knowledge..that being said though, none of that applies to the job at hand really. Thats the reason for so many questions....oh by the way I forgot to mention me and my brother both drive old rangers as beat around trucks, and I painted both of them one with an acrylic enamel and the other with some other kind of singel stage, but i have done some motorcyle fenders and door jams in base coat clear coat...and done some body work.

    About my facilities
    I have a 30 by 50 garage with three bays,
    a cherry picker, a miller wire welder, torch, grinder, two rolling jacks, 8 stand jacks, tons of sockets and wrenchs, air ratchet, air impact gun, air angle gridner, cut off tool, and air sander. Small sand blaster also.

    The idea off it taking a long time is ok with me. Most off the people I talk to around here said it takes them years to one. Most of the cars and trucks I have done take about 6 to 10 months but its because you have to wait on this or wait on that from somebody..My plans for the truck were this. Make the F3 and F1, get it to where it drove good and stopped good. My father in law has a 66 chevelle and they go to little car shows around and go out driving on the weekend and thats all I really intend to do with it...I would like it be pretty neet looking as far as it not look all botched up, like it was slapped together.

    ok, reading over that it is alot but maybe you can understand me better now...I hope i don't sound forceful or upset about this stuff on here to anyone, cause I am far from it. My dad said "do you know what your doing?" when I tore into this and I said no but we will figure something out. So thats what I am doing, figuring something out. I am laid back and not going to get upset about anything much so go ahead and tell me like it is..haha
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest

    Re: my 51 truck

    Post  Guest on Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:59 am

    depending on his knowledge and skills, he would probably do better to find a nonrunning 51 Ford pickup and use his Galaxie/thing for the parts needed to make his new 51 run.

    Have you noticed that when you start with a junk/project, then find another for parts, the parts vehicle is better than what you started with?
    avatar
    Darkside Dave
    Admin

    Posts : 1018
    Join date : 2009-04-21
    Age : 72
    Location : Marietta, Ohio

    Re: my 51 truck

    Post  Darkside Dave on Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:23 pm

    bgarrett wrote:depending on his knowledge and skills, he would probably do better to find a nonrunning 51 Ford pickup and use his Galaxie/thing for the parts needed to make his new 51 run.

    Have you noticed that when you start with a junk/project, then find another for parts, the parts vehicle is better than what you started with?

    Been there, done that, got the T-shirt...


    _________________
    <br>
    avatar
    charger

    Posts : 148
    Join date : 2009-06-15
    Age : 42
    Location : manitoba

    Re: my 51 truck

    Post  charger on Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:52 pm

    yes,line Dave said,lets see pics of the beast!! if you can take underside pictures also especially where the cab mounts are,then we can give you a better idea of what to do!also take a side profile and back.
    avatar
    charger

    Posts : 148
    Join date : 2009-06-15
    Age : 42
    Location : manitoba

    Re: my 51 truck

    Post  charger on Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:18 pm

    found pictures on fte on your truck, it dosen`t look that bad,remove the big i beams and build yourself a truck box,mount your rear fenders and your on your way! you gotta remember no mater what frame you use your going to have to modify a box anyway! if you need any advise myself and lo lid have built our own boxes from scratch and there is nothing to it!




    the only thing you might have to change is the rear end looks to narrow from the picture?? kinda hard to tell?
    avatar
    Darkside Dave
    Admin

    Posts : 1018
    Join date : 2009-04-21
    Age : 72
    Location : Marietta, Ohio

    Re: my 51 truck

    Post  Darkside Dave on Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:53 pm

    If that chassis is out of a Galaxie it is pre '65 because from '65 on the rear had coil springs. I can't tell much from what I saw in those pics but there jus might be a chance they didn't screw up the body mounts. It looks as though they just added additional steel to the frame for whatever they wanted to adapt. I have to agree with charger, if you have reservations about doing extensive mods you might just be better off getting the chassis you have shaped up. That rear suspension looks a bit weak to me though. It's got all the makings of a bouncer...

    More pictures... More pictures!!!

    Later Folks...


    _________________
    <br>
    avatar
    jayboy3

    Posts : 17
    Join date : 2009-06-22
    Location : North Carolina

    Re: my 51 truck

    Post  jayboy3 on Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:09 pm

    Yea, I will get you guys some more pics, should I don't really know how to post them here so I might post over there in my gallery, unless some one wants to tell me how again. It is funny though, I wish you guys would have seen me over on the fte when I was trying to figure out what was going on cause everyone over there was like that frame is junk, it will never work, you need to get you a f1 frame and forget about it. So its like what do you do?

    I don't think they changed anything about the truck as far as the way the body is put together or mounted. So far the only thing I have noticed is the put like a few extra bolt here and there on the inner fenders to hold it a little better. And Dave, the truck looks like a easy glider going down the road...when I followed my brother driving it the truck would hit a bump and up and down she would go. Not like fast up and down, like a gliding motion.
    avatar
    charger

    Posts : 148
    Join date : 2009-06-15
    Age : 42
    Location : manitoba

    Re: my 51 truck

    Post  charger on Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:00 pm

    there`s a box that looks like a picture (host a picture), then you can add any picture you want
    avatar
    Darkside Dave
    Admin

    Posts : 1018
    Join date : 2009-04-21
    Age : 72
    Location : Marietta, Ohio

    Re: my 51 truck

    Post  Darkside Dave on Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:29 pm

    jayboy3 wrote:. And Dave, the truck looks like a easy glider going down the road...when I followed my brother driving it the truck would hit a bump and up and down she would go. Not like fast up and down, like a gliding motion.

    I would have to say that the frame was flexing and here is why... Those frames wwere designed to work in concert with the rigidity of the body that was on them. They were not designed to be an independent load bearing frame as are truck frames where the bed and cab are seperate.

    the above said, I'n not necessarilly advocating doing away with the frame, but I do think it needs modification from it's present form to accomodate the application you are going for.

    When you get some pics up maybe I can sketch a modification for you to see what I mean.

    This site is relatively new and it works differently from the one the FTE uses. Everybody is working their way through figuring it out. As time goes by more people will be able to help you with stuff like uploading pictures. There are a lot of things I haven't figured out yet. I just go at it on an as needed basis. If I need to do something I go and try to figure it out. It's almost impossible to get it all figured out at one time. I have been fooling with it for three months.

    Later Man...


    _________________
    <br>
    avatar
    charger

    Posts : 148
    Join date : 2009-06-15
    Age : 42
    Location : manitoba

    Re: my 51 truck

    Post  charger on Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:54 pm

    could be that it was flexing??,the truck did have a flatbed on it so it might of been used for that purpose??
    avatar
    charger

    Posts : 148
    Join date : 2009-06-15
    Age : 42
    Location : manitoba

    Re: my 51 truck

    Post  charger on Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:11 pm

    get rid of those i beams,you can weld 1 1/2 round tubing from the front of the hump to the frame right behind the cab make a frame cross support,as for the box here`s a few pics when i was building mine




    picture 1 is the sides, i don`t have the angle for the bend with me but will get it tonight
    pic 2-as you can see by the midddle of the box, you can make whatever height of box you need
    the back is not shown but there is a beam running across which is welded to the stake pockets,that beam
    connects to the frame, front is the same way, build a small cross beam to the box and your ready to go!

    avatar
    Darkside Dave
    Admin

    Posts : 1018
    Join date : 2009-04-21
    Age : 72
    Location : Marietta, Ohio

    Re: my 51 truck

    Post  Darkside Dave on Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:02 pm

    Nice work on the bed there charger...


    _________________
    <br>

    Sponsored content

    Re: my 51 truck

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:34 pm