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(this is not a place for lazy video game freaks. We Darksiders have been around doing our thing for decades before the mindless couch blobs latched onto the term Darksider)



DARKSIDER In the world of automotive hobbyists a Darksider is one who modifies and or customizes any and all sorts of vehicles. The Darksiders are in a class of their own simply because they endeavor to be different and do things that others would not attempt for a number of reasons mostly being related to a lack of ability and fear of non conformity.

This is a forum for people who think outside the box in everything they do. It doesn’t matter if you are modifying or building from scratch. It doesn’t matter what brand or brands of vehicles or components you are using. It doesn’t matter if you are working on a mini car or a bus.

We will not be asking you for donations or any kind of monetary payments. We will be asking for help in terms moderators and encouraging you to spread the word and add to our membership.

Darksider's Realm

A message board & forum for automotive builders, fabricators and customizers who think outside the box.


    49F1 rat rod

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    tomget

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    49F1 rat rod

    Post  tomget on Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:02 pm

    I've got this pretty badly rusted 49F1 with a complete flathead 6/floor 4spd w/sychros and granny gear, and the stock looking closed driveline and differential etc with all original leaf springs etc--The springs look too!used and rusty and one is broken. I've never had the truck running, but I think its probably all useable--or rebuildable except the frozen in place brake drums etc. I'm looking for low cost ways to lower it--as low as possible. I'd go air bags, but don't want to spend that much or eliminate the I beam front axle either. I've never done it but I know one can "step" the frame to get things lower. I'd be willing to try if I had some good articles or a book on it. I recall seeing a Tex Smith book --I think--but can't find it. I'm thinking patched/surface rust--I've got it--leave it and make a lowered/chopped/the bed? I dont know the bed is seriously rust rotted/ 16inch steelies bias ply rat rodded truck.

    Has anybody seen any good looking F1's rat rodded? I haven't. Most of the rat rods that I'm familiar with are the earlier transverse front leaf springs--and rear too I guess, because they run them without fenders etc and they look really cool. I'd really like to go that route, but how can I make the buggy springs in the F1 "go away". I guess I could somehow put a "leaf spring" crossmember between the front frame and go from there, but I don't want to buy a whole new front set up-particularly. Is there a simple way to switch the paralell springs to transverse front and rear? And even if I did succeed I wonder if the "fatter" wider looking F1 cab would really look good? I can make some scaled drawings or photoshop etc and get a feel for it all. But the F1 might be better left with fenders!

    Tomget
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    mostly52f1

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    Re: 49F1 rat rod

    Post  mostly52f1 on Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:24 pm

    there is a 48 rat rod running around my town, its actually the only other f1 in my area(that i know of) and it looks really really good, i'm trying to find another f1 cab to build one myself. i've also seen a few f1s that was rat roded in a picture thread on the hamb.
    heres a fav of mine. theres a build thread on this truck too, a very good one. oh and heres the link to the build thread.
    http://www.killbillet.com/showthread.php?t=9285
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    havi

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    Re: 49F1 rat rod

    Post  havi on Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:57 pm

    Here's a leaf spring '37 Chev pickup a coworker built.
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    tomget

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    rat rod examples

    Post  tomget on Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:16 am

    Hey thanks guys for the pics, and that build up series of photos of the orange colored F1 rat rod are just terrific. Maybe I should try building my own frame. I've never done it, but I've done projects approaching it. So it might be a reasonable "next step up" for me. If I had one of those frame Platforms? or a way to make some sort of level surface--I'd need that. My garage--I poured it myself 30ys ago is everything but level. That 48 cab looks good to me, and I've chopped one truck - its a lot of work, but I suppose its like having babies--After enough time one forgets about the pain! And that 37Chevy Rat is really cool too.
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    Darkside Dave
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    Re: 49F1 rat rod

    Post  Darkside Dave on Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:51 am

    Hi Tom,

    I'm a big fan of fabricating your own frames. There ia a wide range of sizes and wall thicknesses od steel box tube available through steel suppliers. HJere is a link to a little trailer base broject I built for a Lincoln welder.

    http://www.pvpmedia.com/FAB.htm

    I also built the Scoobygator with a frame design of my own using the Subaru suspension. You can see that here undewr the forum for cuastom built off road vehicles.

    Later Man...


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    tomget

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    frame building

    Post  tomget on Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:41 pm

    Hi Dave

    Thanks for the photos of your frame building. That looks like a real quality job. Is there a way or ways that I could build a frame for my 49F1 without having to buy some sort of expensive "table" etc. I've visited pro shops and seen the huge/heavy steel platforms that they use with all the leveling devices etc, and that for sure is best, but could I find a way to make a "level" frame etc without using such a "pro" table,and still get a quality job? Or are there any "do it yourself" frame building tables that are less than "pro" quality but something an amateur builder could get by with?

    Tom
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    havi

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    Re: 49F1 rat rod

    Post  havi on Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:47 pm

    A backyard way of doing things, IMO only, is to use some straight I beams or box tube, and run screw-jacks on each corner, and maybe even some in the middle to prevent sag, and a quality laser level to make sure everything is good. My .02
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    tomget

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    frame building

    Post  tomget on Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:54 pm

    Hi Havi

    Yes I was thinking along those same lines. It would be some sort of "put together rig" that would get the job done, but not good enough to want to use it on a regular basis like its my occupation or something.
    If I look around I might find an example of such a thing. It wouldn't be as easy to use or sophisticated as the pro table, but it might be fine for a one shot deal where things would go a little slower.

    Tom
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    Darkside Dave
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    Re: 49F1 rat rod

    Post  Darkside Dave on Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:43 pm

    I have built a lot of trailers which amount to the same kind of problems keeping things square and level. I have never had or built a special table or platform. that is because every project is different and I don't have room for some big piece if stuff laying around. Instead I use a variety of methods including buit not limited to screw jacks, spacers, hydraulic jacks and a variety of timbers and beams. I also have some good levels and a laser level. When I get a basic frame set up square and level I tack everything and constamtly check as I tack in the pieces. then I go back and do some more tacking and checking. When I weld or tack I keep moving to opposite corners or sides so as not to get too much heat in any one place. This process takes a while but I think it's worth it.

    Later Man...


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    tomget

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    frame building

    Post  tomget on Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:27 pm

    Hi Dave

    Thanks for the description of your frame building. I was kinda hoping I could do something just like that. I've had a lot experience "warping" metal so I know what you mean about the effects of "heat". I've got the school of "hard knocks". When I get in a hurry with sheet metal--it always happens!! And I've done my share of sheet metal cosmetic welding. I'm not especially good at it, but I get by OK. I've only got a mig-Millermatic 150?. I've had it since about 1992, and it still works OK. I hear you guys talking about tig etc and I've never done it, but I might want to try some day. Do you think I could build a frame with a mig? Or would I be better off with better heat control+ with the tig?

    Tom
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    Darkside Dave
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    Re: 49F1 rat rod

    Post  Darkside Dave on Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:07 pm

    The MIG is great for frame building. If you are really crazy about really beutiful welds then the TIG will get you there but the skill is an acquired thing that takes practice to get really good. The MIG will penetrate good and it is relatively beginner friendly. I have seen some decent welds from people who have never welded.

    Later Man...


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    Lowlid

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    Re: 49F1 rat rod

    Post  Lowlid on Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:54 am

    Darkside Dave wrote:The MIG is great for frame building. If you are really crazy about really beutiful welds then the TIG will get you there but the skill is an acquired thing that takes practice to get really good. The MIG will penetrate good and it is relatively beginner friendly. I have seen some decent welds from people who have never welded.

    Later Man...

    Mig is a lot easier to learn than tig. Heck......... my wife has even done some mig welding. I spent about an hour with my grandson last summer teaching him to mig weld, then turned him loose with a pile of scrap to practice on. Those young hands really pick this stuff up quick. Before the day was over he was welding on the frame of my truck. And he did a very good job.

    I favor the mig for jobs that I want done fast and the look of the weld is not important to the finished part.

    Andrew
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    Darkside Dave
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    Re: 49F1 rat rod

    Post  Darkside Dave on Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:13 am

    [quote="Lowlid]I favor the mig for jobs that I want done fast and the look of the weld is not important to the finished part.

    Andrew[/quote]

    I have seen some pretty darn good looking welds done by MIG. Granted it might not conpare with the precision look of TIG but that kind of work takes a lot of time to master if ever.

    Later Man...


    Last edited by Darkside Dave on Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:43 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Lowlid

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    Re: 49F1 rat rod

    Post  Lowlid on Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:14 pm

    Dave,

    I didn't mean to imply that a mig weld couldn't look good. I really have to work at it to make it look like a tig weld. It's just a faster way to get a strong weld for me. My preference for frame work.

    Andrew
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    Darkside Dave
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    Re: 49F1 rat rod

    Post  Darkside Dave on Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:45 pm

    Lowlid wrote:Dave,

    I didn't mean to imply that a mig weld couldn't look good. I really have to work at it to make it look like a tig weld. It's just a faster way to get a strong weld for me. My preference for frame work.

    Andrew

    Yep, I agree, MIG is best and fastest for frame work. Even if it does get a little messy you can always touch it up with a grinder.


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    sinndustrial

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    Re: 49F1 rat rod

    Post  sinndustrial on Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:15 am

    there is another easy fix for your request , which i have several pics of upon request of the process, some call it a channel job. i did this to my old 88 ranger out in front of my house , on the sidewalk ( soooo not even kidding on this one, even got into a fistfight with one of the town officals over it, he lived across the street) and basically what it entails is cutting the floor and firewall out of the truck and cutting it all down to lower the cab over the frame rails more . do the same to the bed floor and sides so the whole truck will squat to the ground without even touching your frame or suspension. i channeled my rnager 6 and 1/4 inches and threw in some honda civic buckets and drove that truck every day to work and back ( about 60 miles a day ) and never had an issue with it.(see link for picture of the truck after surgery)http://i89.servimg.com/u/f89/14/49/31/01/myoldr10.jpg http://i89.servimg.com/u/f89/14/49/31/01/myoldr11.jpg furthermore, i went ahead and cut 2 coils from the front springs and took all the leafs out of the back except one and did and axle flip in the back ( meaning flipped the axle to the top side of the leaf spring pack instead of the bottom side) so that pic will show you potentially how low you can go with a little welding know-how and not much money, but most importantly, WITHOUT AIR RIDE OR EXPENSIVE 4 LINK KITS OR SWAPPING OUT YOUR I BEAMS!! remember , the ranger uses I beams too.
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    tomget

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    49F1

    Post  tomget on Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:46 am

    sinndustrial

    Boy that's some great looking Ranger. I've got a 92 Ranger myself. It looks mostly stock, but I've made some minor lowering effects through changing to dropped I beams/etc and I like it just fine. But I like what you did too. Its a different more RAD look-what you did, and I always like that!! And when I started this thread I was really more looking at somehow "not seeing" the leaf springs on a non fendered truck. Meaning my thinking about gettng rid of the 49F1 fenders/running boards etc. It's just an appearance issue. At one time--I'm told people did mods on leaf spring trucks(removed fenders etc) and just let the springs appear as they are on so equipped fenderless trucks, and I guess that was before my time, but I'm sure people so reporting are correct. But I've gotten accustomed to not seeing those leaf sprngs on fenderlss trucks and would prefer that. I channeled my 48 International KB1 years ago, and am very happy with it, and it is a full fendered truck so the leaf springs arent' easily seen. And like you say its a great way to maintain the OEM engineering etc. I've still got it and am still happy with it. I haven't started on this truck--too many other projects, but as far as planning,after looking at the truck etc, I'm leaning towards building a more OEM look as much as possbie. If the rust allows it! But who knows. Thanks for your comments. Love that Ranger. What motor do you have in that? Did you go V8? Out here in Californica--at least the county where I live anyway--we're inspected and not allowed to make that kind of "mod" to a "newer" truck like a Ranger etc. Old stuff is OK. I think currently a modded car/truck needs to be 25+years old plus other specifics depending/for motor mods etc. They watch us pretty close around here. Our cars and trucks get "smog tested" and "visually inspected" every 2 years? in Napa county and surrounding SFBay area counties as well.

    Goodluck Tom
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    sinndustrial

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    Re: 49F1 rat rod

    Post  sinndustrial on Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:23 pm

    ok , i have a solution for you without breaking the bank. you know those old ford LTD's and mercury grand marquis? like about a 85 model , for example. they have two trailing arms in the rear , and coils sitting on top of them. you could take the stock 8.8 rearend out of one of those and take the traling arm mounts with it, and swap that out for your old setup. this is a swap i have done myself, so i know it works. when it comes to suspension, i always try to take most of the cutting out on the body, i always try to keep as much of the original suspension geometry as i can. and if you dont like the sound of the trailing arm setup , you could always fab up your own 4 link kit in the rear. one of the great things i like about using the trailing arm setup is that it also comes with the panhard bar, to help stiffen things up in the rear. one of the big advantages to doing this swap is that the donor cars i speak of are easily and readily available at your local junk yard, and you can pick up parts at your local parts store for them as well. its inexpensive and it works. also , the 85 grand marquis had a full perimeter frame, so you also have a good platform to cut off of to use on your truck. here is a link to kinda help explain what i mean by all of this, and if you have any questions about the details of it, just ask. ::http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trailing_arm

    and by the way, the motor and drivetrain in the ranger was the stock 4 banger. i was going to put a 48 ford flathead in it, but i never got around to locating one. underneath the custom body work on that truck it was all stock. i even put the stock dash and steering column back in it. the whole process took me about 3 months , off and on.
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    tomget

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    Re: 49F1 rat rod

    Post  tomget on Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:46 pm

    Sinndustrial,

    That's a cool idea about the trailing arms etc, I'll give that some serious thought. Thanks for the link. Regarding your Ranger/I've still got the 2.3L 4 cylinder and I'm pretty happy with it. I've got 100's of thousands of miles on my Ranger. Its the only car/truck "new" I ever bought. They get great mileage and are a good little work truck too. Mine has paid for itself a thousand times.

    Good luck
    Tom
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    sinndustrial

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    Re: 49F1 rat rod

    Post  sinndustrial on Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:05 pm

    i also have a good idea for you with the ranger. if you were so inclined, these mills are great running motors, AND if you have a little ford ingenuity, you can hot rod the hell out of one for next to nothing. the 2.3 mill in your ranger is essentially the same motor thats in the late 80's SVO mustangs , and the thunderbird "turbo coupe" . so , if you were to get a turbo manifold and ECU from one of these cars, with either the factory turbo or an upgraded one, you could have your ride turbo'ed for pretty cheap. i did this to an 87 escort i had, which had the 1.9 in it, but its just a smaller bore 2.3 . same motor. all early 1.9 parts bolt on the same way the 2.3 stuff does. or if you wanted to do a complete motor swap , find a donor 83-88 turbo coupe which still arent too terribly hard to find in junk yards, and pull the motor and ECU out of it and swap it into your ranger. its a direct bolt in swap, no need for re wiring or anything, and it is gonna give you a lot better of a starting point to build power off of, without swapping to a V8 OR breaking the bank. and the 85 model turbo coupe's peak power output was 190 horsepower, so with a bigger turbo and an intercooler and some bolt on speed stuff,its definetly nothing to sneeze at when its put into a Ranger. Wink thats a little more power than your average stock 5.0 puts out, and weighs half as much.
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    tomget

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    Re: 49F1 rat rod

    Post  tomget on Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:15 pm

    Sinndustrial

    For sure the 2.3L turbo is a fantastic motor. And I would have done it years ago, but we're not allowed to make that kind of "mod" in this county. And as I mentioned earlier, they do a physical inspection of ones car/truck about every two years and put it on a "dyno" if you can believe it, and run all sorts of almost impossible to pass tests. And of course the individual pays for all this, and if they find a problem you might be required to take it to a "state licensed" repair facility for repairs -more expense-or the state could even force you to sell it to them etc--at a price they will determine. Some states have tailpipe emission tests, etc, here in the North SF Bay area counties, we've got all sorts of added hoops. Its a bit of worry to all us "car guys". They can pass any law they want! And they don't like us.

    And facts and data don't get in their way. Its a "mind set" around here. Most people "believe" that cars are bad, and the source of all polution etc. No matter the specific facts. They just simply want to blame someone and something and make it all simple. Even if they're wrong. They don't care. Its a big subject around here and I could go on, but I won't.

    But along this line at one time I was keenly following some guy "the Pinto guy" or something like that. He was shop teacher from Socal, and HotRod or someone-maybe more than one mag-did a big article his turboed 2.3L Pinto and other such stuff. He actually went wit his owner/modded aftermarket turbo addition to the Ford 2.3L Turbo motor and was blowing people away with power adders too. If it were allowed I would definitly pick up an old TBird 2.3L turbo. There's plenty around here, and one of their cool little Tremac 5speed boxes. REally cool combo but not allowed.

    Definitely a low cost plan, and if someone else is reading this in the future--be sure to get the turbo computer, and do a Google Search on the Pinto Guy. He had a ton of advice and instructions and as a shop teacher he is a knowledgeable guy.

    Thanks for your suggestions

    Tom
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    sinndustrial

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    Re: 49F1 rat rod

    Post  sinndustrial on Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:15 pm

    being that i am only 26 years old , i wasnt really aware of the car situation in cali and surrounding states, but i do know that programs like " cash for clunkers" has completely soured my taste for modernized government. in my short time on this planet i have witnessed several atrocities against man, mind, and machine. all i can do right now is wonder what it is going to take to get people to lobby against these crooks. for example, my 1993 chevy van i just sold was a perfect 4500 dollar trade in candidate for the " cash for clunkers" program. not to get all political on you guys, but i think this is the biggest piece of bullshit i have ever seen , since 9-11-01 . we voted against the car maker bailouts, and Obama went ahead and did just that with the Cash for Clunkers program. its a bailout for a corporate agenda in disguise. so, now if it wasnt bad enough that we have allowed the lines to be blurred between import and domestic cars, with contracts between toyota and GM, and Ford's deal with Mazda, and so on and so forth, allowing person after person after person to pull up right next door to you and park his Mazda badged as a Ford, but now not only that , but we also have to buy back our own "junk"domestics to boot;collectively speaking. so in effect, we are literally PAYING import car makers to run our sacred big 3 out of buisiness.and furthermore, we have no choice. we voted "NO" and obama turned around and went behind our back with this " cash for clunkers" shit. the trouble is, its all about the almighty dollar. the great state of California doesnt give a shit about emissions, dont let them fool you. they dont give a damn about you or your car or your kids. its all about
    that money, and who is holding the most of it at the end of the fiscal year. and the worst thing is , our kids are the ones who are going to suffer. i can see little Johnny Somebody 30 years from now, looking through old issues of Hot Rod saying to himself " damn, i wish i had one of those cars!!!". and he never will because no one stood up and fought for the hobby, and Mr. President passed a law stating that all cars made before the year 2000 and whatever is going to be crushed. but you will be reimbursed for your loss with a 4500 dollar check that your neighbors and colleagues, the american taxpayer, are paying for.

    im not saying that No One has stood up for the american car hobby. i believe several people have.

    shameful to say this, but i feel that it doesnt matter what we say anymore.

    we have been silenced.


    Sinndustrial-
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    tomget

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    Re: 49F1 rat rod

    Post  tomget on Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:17 am

    Sinndustrial

    As you "say" that appears to be the direction things are going.

    Tom
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    Darkside Dave
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    Re: 49F1 rat rod

    Post  Darkside Dave on Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:46 am

    sinndustrial wrote:being that i am only 26 years old , i wasnt really aware of the car situation in cali and surrounding states, but i do know that programs like " cash for clunkers" has completely soured my taste for modernized government. in my short time on this planet i have witnessed several atrocities against man, mind, and machine. all i can do right now is wonder what it is going to take to get people to lobby against these crooks. for example, my 1993 chevy van i just sold was a perfect 4500 dollar trade in candidate for the " cash for clunkers" program. not to get all political on you guys, but i think this is the biggest piece of bullshit i have ever seen , since 9-11-01 . we voted against the car maker bailouts, and Obama went ahead and did just that with the Cash for Clunkers program. its a bailout for a corporate agenda in disguise. so, now if it wasnt bad enough that we have allowed the lines to be blurred between import and domestic cars, with contracts between toyota and GM, and Ford's deal with Mazda, and so on and so forth, allowing person after person after person to pull up right next door to you and park his Mazda badged as a Ford, but now not only that , but we also have to buy back our own "junk"domestics to boot;collectively speaking. so in effect, we are literally PAYING import car makers to run our sacred big 3 out of buisiness.and furthermore, we have no choice. we voted "NO" and obama turned around and went behind our back with this " cash for clunkers" shit. the trouble is, its all about the almighty dollar. the great state of California doesnt give a shit about emissions, dont let them fool you. they dont give a damn about you or your car or your kids. its all about
    that money, and who is holding the most of it at the end of the fiscal year. and the worst thing is , our kids are the ones who are going to suffer. i can see little Johnny Somebody 30 years from now, looking through old issues of Hot Rod saying to himself " damn, i wish i had one of those cars!!!". and he never will because no one stood up and fought for the hobby, and Mr. President passed a law stating that all cars made before the year 2000 and whatever is going to be crushed. but you will be reimbursed for your loss with a 4500 dollar check that your neighbors and colleagues, the american taxpayer, are paying for.

    im not saying that No One has stood up for the american car hobby. i believe several people have.




    shameful to say this, but i feel that it doesnt matter what we say anymore.

    we have been silenced.


    Sinndustrial-




    Sorry Man, but I just can't let this one go. It's one thing to have opinions and feelings about something you are not in favor of, but it's quite another to get on here and rave on about something that you are obviously misinformed about. Before you respond I suggest you go to this link to a post I made here on the board. http://darksidersrealm.forumotion.com/other-stuff-f53/cash-for-clunkers-t187.htm
    In that post you will find a link to the text of the CFC, (cash for clunkers), bill. It is 136 pages long and I have read it all. Unfortunately about everyone I have heard whining and complaining about it has never read it and they really don't know what is in it.

    No one is making anybody trade in their clunkers. As a matter of fact, there were a lot of pre 2000 models that did not qualify. The biggest percentage of the trade ins were Ford Explorers. That probably was due to the fact that they outsold all other SUV's for years and there were a lot of them out there. Point is, they were not a very attractive vehicle to automotive hobbyists. It is true that folks like me are interested in the chassis, suspension and such for use in other projects. CFC actually helped me there.

    I have seen the CFC cars in lots around the dealers and I gotta tell you, we did not loose much.

    The main reason no one said NO as you put it is because there was no real logical reason to say NO. In total there were about 700,000 vehicles turned in. If you have any real grasp or concept of the scale of things you would realize that is a mere fraction of the vehicles on the road. There were about 250,000,000 registered vehicles at the time of CFC. That does not count all of the stuff in junk yards and sitting around in back yards, fields and in barns that are what we like to find most. That makes the number of CFC vehicles a minuscule fraction of 1% of just the registered vehicles.

    The evidence is there in extreme abundance to anyone who has the reasoning and logic to accept it... CFC was a success for both the customers and the auto industry. It was one of the few things the government got right. I am involved in stocks and investing and I keep an eye on the market. CFC helped me make back some of the money those bastards ripped me off for. I'm sure it did the same for anyone intelligent enough to invest wisely. Far more importantly, it was a great boost for the economy.

    I don't understand why you are not infuriated about the losses incurred to the automotive hobbyists by the extreme high scrap prices paid out over a year ago when the Chinese were driving the market up. That issue had far more damaging effect on the supply of good candidate vehicles than CFC did by far.

    Don't misunderstand me, I love it when people stand up and criticize the government. That is as it should be. The re4ason we are in the mess we are now is because they did not do that enough when and where we needed it. For eight years Bush and his buddies like Ken Lay of Enron raped and pillaged the entire system while the majority of Americans sit on their hands and did nothing other than whine and moan about gay marriage. Where were you then???

    I get really fed up with it when people are whining and moaning about shit they really know nothing about. Do yourself a big favor. Start investigating and learn the real facts about issues. Don't just go off half cocked based on what you hear others say who most likely don't know any more than you do. Now more than ever it is very easy to learn the facts if you want to.

    If you are so outraged about the taxes you pay, then why is it you are not way more concerned about the countless billions that are going down the drain in Iraq and Afghanistan that we will never get a damn thing for other that world hatred and a lot of dead Americans? I think it's time you did some adjusting of your priorities.

    As for Little Johnny, he's a moot point. At the rate youth is going now they won't be able to pull their fat drug infested ass off the couch long enough to read a car mag, let alone do anything constructive. And that's going out on a limb by assuming they can read. If you really want to do something to promote the automotive interests you ought to think about joining a car club and getting into some kind of mentoring programs that encourage youth to get involved. of course the best place to start is in the family. My son was with me in the shop since he was barely out of diapers. He will be the first to tell you that he owes his skills and his interest to my involving him at an early age.

    What you say doesn't mean shit unless you can back it up with facts and actions. In other words, don't just tell me, show me.

    Later Man...


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    sinndustrial

    Posts : 24
    Join date : 2009-10-29
    Location : Newark,OH

    in response , to dave....

    Post  sinndustrial on Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:33 pm

    i would go to say that majority of what you said in response was not offensive , you are to a great deal right in my eyes. i feel some of the things you are feeling are opinion, but so are the things i feel. and dont even get me started on the scrap deal with china, its taken me the last few months to get over that. yes, believe me , that was an infuriating event. and not only just that , but the bottom has all but fell out of the scrap industry ( at least locally in my area ) the thing about cash for clunkers that got me bent out of shape , whether or not i was misinformed, is that i feel it is crap that the american taxpayer finds himself in a catch 22. you buy American automobiles, which are engineered by foreign car makers anyways in most cases now a days, to try and do your part to save the domestic market, meanwhile your neighbor is buying foreing, and then you end up having to buy his poor fuel managing vehicle back from him,( in a manner of speaking) only to send it to the scrap yard.

    but nonetheless, if political views and opinions are taboo here, i can just be quiet about it. no harm , no foul.

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